Unfortunately, many of us are still in the Senderella phase. I'm hoping this will help narrow things down for you. But do know, shoes and feet come and tons of different shapes and sizes. Don't give up! For every shoe that doesn't work, at least you can cross that off your list of hopefuls. You can try things on in your gym, from REI (great return policy so you can try on a bunch), or shoe demos. Be patient. And last but certainly not least, COMFORT IS KING. Your shoes SHOULD NOT be painful!! Uncomfortable at first? perhaps. But not pain. You are, in fact, trying to get some climbing mileage and I don't think Janja is staring at this list so, be comfy plz. Last fun fact: Try gear trade sites or REI reuse website for shoe deals and resoling more expensive shoes is always a nice option, as well! Feel free to comment/message me if you want more info.